I know that I keep popping back in and out

I know that this is delayed by two months. I however wanted to pop back in to let you all know that our family has paid of one of our two remaining credit cards. :-) We paid it off at the end of July!

I also have a tax related question. We have a dd who is 7. We have daycare for the school breaks and for summer care. I get receipts from the daycare provider for those services. Would I need to keep copies of the check I wrote to pay for those costs? Or would their receipts, which show the check number suffice for the IRS.

There are some stories, but, honestly, they’re few and far between

We have people here who have lost their spouses, kids, and more to people in these cults.

And just a simple story, in case it ever helps make the point. (Long term members, you can stop reading now, you’ve heard this 20 times.): About 5 years ago I was dating someone in the big Q (they still were using the other name then). She was going to be a millionaire and retire in 5 years. At that point I was still working very hard on my own business but I was not only paying the bills after a few years, but paying down credit card debt rapidly. Over the next year I paid off all my credit card debit that was at a 30% interest rate and the total was significantly more than I made in one average year during most of my time as a teacher — but I paid it off in under a year.

While I was doing that, I also found the car of my dreams and paid for it with cash. Also used those same savings, from that year, and got a bigscreen TV. So while paying off the credit cards, I was far from having to skimp and cut coupons.

Yet my girlfriend (I call her Dawn on this forum) was telling me I *had* to join her because 1) A woman couldn’t succeed without a man, 2) That their business was the only way anyone could succeed these days, 3) It was some up front work, but got easy quickly, 4) We’d both be wealthy soon. Okay. Yeah, right. She was the one who *had* to go out every night to find new prospects and show the Plan. I was the one, by that time, working on my own schedule.

It’s five years later. One of us is not a millionaire. The other one is doing just fine, in spite of the recession (and even keeps their own schedule — hasn’t bothered to get out of bed before 9 am this entire week). One of us has had to sell off a lot of possessions to keep buying business tools. The other one is spending their money on major changes to their house and yard, including some customizations for a killer home theater system. One of us is driving a klunker. The other one is driving the antique car (in peak condition) they’ve wanted since they were a kid. One of us is working a full time job PLUS spending all possible time looking for prospects. The other one is seriously considering retirement now, is out ballroom dancing or taking group lessons 4-6 nights a week (and can easily spring for 2 private lessons a week). One of us is trying to build a business that, by contract, could be taken from us by our upline at any moment. The other one is considering buying a rental property business if it will be a good ROI without the need for close supervision as well as considering starting his own movie production studio.

Now, do I have to tell you which one of us is in AW and still trying to get to platinum or any “stone” level and which one just worked hard, started their own business with a good business plan, and is doing what they want to pretty much every single day?

You’re more than welcome to bring that up about a “friend” of yours if you want to when you’re talking with Jerry. If I had gone with my ex- girlfriend, I would probably have married her, but I’d have gone into the big A and would be with people who expect me to hold religious values I don’t hold and would expect me to take ethical stands that I just don’t believe in. I would have had to abandon my own business and at this point, I’d be hoping to be one of the .1% or less that actually makes a profit in an MLM. Instead, the only reason I’m not retired is because there are more things I want to do.

They are healthy

and my daughter seems to be happy and she’s well cared for in my house! I don’t think I’ll ever be ok with it, but whats done is done. I did manage to plan a baby shower, execution of such on November 7th. I custom made invitations and the dessert bar will be spectacular.

Basically what I’ve told him

Don’t get me wrong, I love my two kids, especially now they are adults and have a life of their own, but I can’t help thinking about the fact of how good he has it right now. With the exception of his huge Sallie Mae he is debt free. He’s at a job he loves, gets paid vacation plus a lot of holidays off, can telecommute in bad weather. Has some pretty cheap rent (he pays the utilities and ½ the animal feed), comes and goes as he pleases, says we are the quietest neighbors he’s ever had, and if he want to take off and travel he can. Built in pet sitter for his cats. But for some strange reason he thinks he needs a family—LOL!
I some times think that is due to the pressure his grandmother has put on him. He’s the only one that can carry on the Patterson name/line for my fil (including the same middle name), he was the first child/grand child on both sides to graduate college (heck most of his cousins didn’t even finish high school) and so he thinks certain things are expected of him. We tell him nope, to just live his life for himself.

If he decides to get married and have kids we’ll spoil them rotten. If not, we won’t worry about it. We are not of the mind set they are mandatory.

Hi Hal,About the name on the email account I use

Don Robertson is Jerry’s dad and it used to be his…then Jerry took over the email account, changed the password and info- and we share the email account but these days he doesn’t look at it anymore- he uses his Amway email account all the time now.
Even though I changed the personal info in the account, I can’t seem to get it to take Don’s name off every time I send an email?? Anyway thank you for the advice… I have a lot of truth facing me and I’m going through a personal struggle here trying to listen to either my head or my heart. It’s easy to say that leaving Jerry would bring less stress into my life…but I still see bits of tenderness in him when he’s not thinking business. And those bits keep my hope there that I can slowly bring back the old love we had. When I can get him away from work and business just to have fun with me (which doesn’t happen often anymore but) and hire a babysitter for the evening, he indulges in being silly with me and romantic. The thing we could all agree on is that every person comes a little flawed…but no man has come closer to perfect for me than Jerry when he’s not on business. And as much as I want to blame Jerry for his involvement in the business, I
also pity him as well. The business ultimately made him what he is, a wealthy man named Ed taught him to be a dishonest businessman, taught him to sacrifice bills if it meant making business volume on time, his mentor ultimately is at fault for ruining my perfect man…and I pity Jerry for his weakness and his need to believe in this dream, he was taught by ppl in the business (who “edified” Ed Jacobs) to respect and revere his mentor- and to take every word as law from his mentor. His mentor told him basically, “If you want everything I have, you can have it as long as you do exactly as I do and tell you”, and Jerry eats up anything he’s told like its candy. I think Jerry would come back to me and be exactly the person I need, with a lot of humility and apologies, if I can somehow tear him away from this business.I hope you don’t think I’m working on a hopeless cause…this forum and others have been made specifically to warn people about and to help
people quit Quixtar. There’s got to be success stories on here right? As long as it’s possible that Jerry could come to his senses, that’s something worth working for- if it brings back Miya’s daddy and my loving fiance. The way I see it, there’s a greater chance I could get him to stop than the .001 percent chance that he’d prove me wrong and make it in the business. I’m working with slightly better odds lol

He tried e harmony for awhile

but didn’t like the type of girl they match him with. We saw an ad for one that is for farmers and country folk here while back and he’s thinking if he can find out more about that site trying it. But of course we can’t remember the name of it. We keep telling him there is no rush.
He’s concerned he wouldn’t be a good step parent (he’s great with kids) if he finds a ready made family, but he also sees how well it worked out for dh and myself (nearly 41 years now) and I came with a child already (my dd).
His problem is he wants someone with good basic core values and everyone tries to fix him up with party hardy girls. He’s religious, but doesn’t care for churches (bad experience with one girlfriend), he’s shy—HUGE problem, and then he doesn’t want to saddle someone with his student loan. We remind him that most ladies will come with “problems” of their own and if it’s meant to be they’ll work all of them out.

Here is the start of a good reference for you


I would suggest that before you try the suggestions from here (and those suggestions have been excellent BTW) you do your homework to understand the conditioning that you are going to be dealing with.

Hoffer’s book on The True Believer is an excellent insight in to the way True Believers think and why merely showing them that they are wrong will not work.

I would then move on to Steve Hassan’s website at: http://www.freedomofmind.com/

and I would read his book Releasing
the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves (2000).

The conditioning techniques practiced by these AMOs is very sophisticated and effective. Please do not fool yourself that it is somehow an amateurish thing – it is not. It has been honed over decades. The people who run these things are professional manipulators and they are very very good at it.

If you are going to get your fiance out of this whole thing you are going to need to bulk up.

Of course I would also tell you that anyone who would put the “business” before their wife and child is not worth a pitcher of warm spit. My personal feeling would be to make damned sure you get the legal documentation for the child support.

Good Luck

Yeah :)

but you don’t rent from your parents either. He wants kids–I tell him he’s nuts. I can’t afford grandkids. LOL! Right now he’s a bit down all hi best friends from school are talking about their kids graduating from high school and such and he feels left out. But then he’ll turn around and tell you he likes his freedom. I think a lot of it is seeing all the posts from his friends.

Well, I was 35 when I married

my DH at 38 (who had never been married); we had our first child at 40 and second at 42 so there’s always hope (if you want kids that is or just to get married).

My coworker is 50+ never been married but actively dating; my financial advisor is 50 and passively looking.

You never really know until you try — and I hate to suggest but I will.. try an online dating site. If for nothing you get to meet a lot of interesting people.

I think it’s great your son is so willing to help you out. In my husband’s culture the Mother’s generally live with the oldest (my spouse) and that was his situation until we married and I upended the apple cart. Your son will find someone eventually who is meant to be his partner. Just hang in there and don’t compromise!

As Hal said, your story made me sad AND angry

I’m so sorry you are having to deal with all this, on top of being a new mom. I can’t even imagine anyone having the kahunas to meet with me to tell me that I wasn’t being a good partner. But it is a hint at what is ahead for you. You must be okay with allowing these people into your relationship and lives at all levels. When I first joined here years ago, there was a couple here who walked away from a 6 figure MLM income once they figured out how unethical the MLM business model is. So this is another avenue to try those probing questions that Hal was talking about. I’m not sure what questions to ask your SO but you can’t positive think a cold away, ignorance is not bliss, you know. For me, this was one of the ways of thinking that got me out. Once I read about those folks who walked away from the six figure income, it really started me thinking about all the things that niggled me about the MLM business.

mlm-cash-loans-moreHere is a link to one of the articles here on our blog that made a lot of sense to me;

One Percent

And btw, I believe that this is the only way that MLMs work, by the failure of those loyal enough to place their monthly qualifying orders even while they are not making commission. This is what pads the paychecks of the upline.
Along with the marketing tools.

Bottom line is that while one might think of themselves as part of that less than 1% that make ANY money, what about all the people they sucker in to their downline? How can one knowningly solicit people who the numbers say WILL FAIL? To quote from the One Percent article….when one is going in for surgery and they are told there is a 2% chance of a serious complication, people almost always assume they will NOT be in that 2%. But with cash loans services they assume that they WILL be part of that 2%. You have to be okay with soliciting good people to fail. As far as marriage goes, personally I think that you should avoid it for now. Not saying give up on him, I know you love him but you have to think about yourself and your daughter now. I can relate to the ring being important, its a symbol. Its not a matter of whether or not anyone else thinks its an important tradition to be upheld, what matters is that its important to you.
That’s what my husband said to me 13 years ago when he proposed with a ring. However, I would worry less right now about rings and weddings and more about your future, as it seems that you might very well be the sole provider.

He’s just given YOU an ultimatum as the foundation for your marriage/life together. It is not a good base to start a life together. If someone gave me that ultimatum and knowledge about where I stood in the relationship, I’d pack up and move out the next day. He’s basically saying that if you don’t let him control you, then you’re out. $35k is quite a lot for a first time surrogate, from what I’ve read first timers usually earn less than $25k – so you’ve gotten a good deal there. Are you meaning that the payment for the surrogacy is tax free? From what I understand, surrogacy monies, if income, are definitely taxable. I also wanted to point out that there’s nothing shameful about putting a child in daycare and earning a good living busting your butt 40 hours/week. Surrogacy might be a temporary bridge but eventually you’ll have to find something to do to support yourself and your daughter. Being pregnant can and does take a toll on your body. A toll most of us moms were glad to ante up for our own children. I suppose it takes a special kind of person to be a surrogate. Still, if taxed – that $35k will still most likely have you living paycheck to paycheck.

I hope what you have to do becomes clear to you and that the pieces fall into place. Until then, feel free to vent here and gather encouragement and support.


Dear Hal,Thank you for

putting time aside to read my story and give back such a long, thoughtful response. I gotta tell you, the people in this support group seem so much more real to me than the “friends” I made in the business meetings a while back. For example this girl named Eileen caught me sitting on a bench next to a Gatorade at a bz event and she asked me coolly “Is that yours?”, replied back “No, someone left it there”, and she took a big sigh of relief and was like ” Ooooh that’s good, because you know if it were yours I’d have to kill you”. And she said all this with light humor but I thought there was nothing funny about the dark hints underneath the smiles. Eileen and Kelly were my two “friends” in the business, people I tried to be real with and gave numbers to with the intent to hang out (outside of the business just to be girls) and of course no one called. I found many people in the business to be fake… Jerry reports directly to Ed &
Vicky Jacobs who live in Hanover, half an hour away from us. I never had any reason to not like their son Colby because he was taking care of a different line of people, and he was very nice to me without talking about the business. His wife Meg though, the first time she saw my baby after I delivered, Meg didn’t stop to say “she’s so cute, what’s her name” or anything like that- she got down to it and asked Jerry if we were buying the business brand diapers- you know the ones that have Shrek plastered all over them. They cost over twice what Huggies cost and probably arent as good. I told Jerry that we already tried Pampers, Luvs, Parents Choice, and Huggies were the brand I was sticking with.
I am like you in being pragmatic and wanting to see the logic behind the words, and I believe things that are backed up with evidence. Jerry thinks I am cynical but I think i work in a very unbiased way when making opinions of something. I was very optimistic about the business at first but with anything else I wanted to make a fair opinion by comparing both sides of the story…rather than take up the business’s word and just “shut out the negative”. Which means that rather than defending the possibly true allegations made against Amway, the business only teaches its members to ignore the complaint and consider it nonsense. I showed Jerry the testimony of a former Diamond member who left and how he said he really made his money- Jerry wanted to tell me that his team told him the “true” story- they told him that the former Diamond had been kicked out and that he must be jealous or coming up with false stories only to retaliate against Quixtar. Comparing
both sides of the story, my reasoning is- Why would someone go through all the trouble of making websites to turn ppl away from Amway if his story were not true? If his motive were only retaliation and jealousy, did he really expect to bring down an entire corporation with the supposed badmouthing? And if he were only jealous at being “kicked out” then he must surely believe the business works and want back in- and then must believe in what he was taught, that the IBOs would simply ignore any negative he put out. If Amway’s story were true, the former Diamond would be contradicting his own beliefs trying to spout negative about it- knowing that as an IBO he was just as deaf as the people he’s trying to persuade. I can only believe that a person who was genuinely damaged by Amway’s doings, could be motivated to waste so much time trying to convince other people- knowing that his efforts could be fruitless next to the brainwashing methods of the business.
Who would spend so much time trying to work fruitlessly against the odds to somehow put the “negative” back into the minds of IBOs? In my opinion, only someone who lost so much-and cared so much not to let it happen to others- that they were willing to work against Amway (against the odds) out of caring and desperation. I know if I were burnt as badly, I would care enough to talk to hundreds of people over the internet- knowing that if I could change just one person’s mind- it would be worth my words also falling on a hundred deaf ears just for that one person to get the opportunity to hear my story. It actually sounds a lot like the way IBOs contact people, dozens of people who say no just to find one who says yes. But the big difference? The IBOs are trying to find people for personal gain, and MLM survivors are out there- not out for their own gain but doing all this FOR the other person. Why would I get such a great reply from MLM survivors like
you if you weren’t really looking out for me and were just what Amway says (a jealous person who failed the business by their own fault and wanting to retaliate). I know that if i were simply jealous of someone, I wouldn’t go through such lengths to bring someone down- I probably wouldn’t give the darn to send out long emails to dozens of people to badmouth a business I know won’t fall down overnight. I appreciate the advice you’ve given me. I can correct a few details…I am not going to inherit money from my grandparents. My money actually comes from a surrogacy deal with a couple who can’t carry a child of their own. My compensation is $35,000 (untaxed) for one pregnancy and another $45,000 if I decide to give a second child to the same couple a year later. Jerry is 25 and makes $17/hour at his fulltime job, something he’s unhappy with I’m sure. And he knows that I will be making more net income in the next year than he is, just to live at home with
our daughter while he busts his ass 40 hours a week. His family has badmouthed me because they are jealous that I’m not putting in the hours like they are to make money, Jerry’s sister Tammy in particular is probably jealous that I get to live at home with my daughter while she works hard (for less pay than me) and hardly gets time with her 2 daughters. But the jealousy stops at words only, it’s not like they’re posting all over the internet or trying to stop me…Jerry did stick up for me with the surrogacy and stopped talking to his family if they were going to talk badly of me. I’ll only be 21 in April and my family is very supportive of the surrogacy. Big difference is that my family has money and his family doesn’t, so my family has no jealousy- they think it’s a great idea to give the most precious gift to a woman who survived cancer but can’t have a baby. My grandfather is very humble with his money and still lives in the tiny home he raised his
children in. My family has money but we do not do “handouts”…my grandparents don’t offer to buy anyone a car for Christmas. We all earn what money or favors we get, and as a soon-to-be- 21 year old I’m supposed to figure it out on my own for a while and be able to learn from mistakes. I have a crappy car but my total debt is under $5000, but my family isn’t going to bail me out. So they support my surrogacy contract and that I am doing this on my own, to get myself out of debt and afford to go back to college with cash.For Jerry, he’s 25 and college is no longer an option. And 17/hour is all he can make without getting promoted- and he refused to get promoted if it means more hours or night shift. So this business is all he has to get his hopes on and I can’t tear him from it. I agree with you, he has done in the past and would do it again- he would skimp out on rent to take care of his business volume if he knows that I will pick up the unpaid
bills. I don’t want that to happen because it gives him control, to shove me in a corner like that and force me to pay the rent or phone if I want us to keep our home. The business actually condones traditional male and female roles, having the man in power and the woman in the shut-up-and-be-supportive role. We actually went to an “Olympic Day” around the time of Behjing- the team DC International hosted a picnic and game day in a park. I signed up with many others to play kickball…but they created a rule to make it more “fair” that every team must have 6 men to every 3 women. ?!?! So I wanted to get in the last game for a little playing time and i was the last woman who did not get a turn to kick and run. The person running the game looked at the list of people on the team and said “We have too many girls, we need one more guy” . I was the only person who didn’t play and they actually chose a man- who already played- to be the last member of
the team! I was mad at Jerry for backing this up…it was obvious that competing was far more important than participation. They wanted to make the male female ratio equal to make it fair for competition, but they didn’t care to ensure that everybody got a chance to play. What do you think of that? So I think this business is turning Jerry into a womanizer. He thinks he’s supposed to work and I’m supposed to have a clean house and cooked meal ready for him when he comes home. The business is changing our relationship and putting this huge ego on him, and he now makes excuses for the lack of romance saying he doesn’t have time or money to do it a lot. Well romance is free, and all it takes is a few seconds to kiss me after work. A couple minutes to write a sexy note and leave it on the fridge. A few bucks for some carnations or a couple roses. I take your advice seriously, it backs up a lot of what I was thinking before, I should separate the
finances into Mine and His- take care of my personal debt and only half the apartment, half the phone, otherwise not let Jerry have any of my cash in his pocket. I did try to keep a tab on his finances before, but the fact is he never keeps his paystubs or bills, never writes down how much he makes and how much he spends. So he really is ignoring the steps it would take to prove he is losing money in the business. I think it I want to be with him I should come to an agreement with him that we don’t discuss the business and we’ll separate our finances so it’s very clear whose money is whose and not to argue over how it’s spent. But I’m going to feel like a real mean person when he’s still living paycheck to paycheck and I have thousands in my bank- and he gets into a car accident or something and can’t afford to cover something in an emergency. Maybe I’ll do him a favor like that once but I’ll make it a personal loan so he’ll have to write down that he
took my money and owes me. As for the family questions, Jerry has never spent a full 24 hour day alone with our daughter- but he has left me alone for weekends at a time with her so he could attend functions like conference. He knows how to diaper her but he’s never given her a bath by himself or fed her with a spoon now that she’s begun to get baby food. He never took pictures of her, or me while pregnant. It was all on me to use my digital camera and make the appointment for professional photos around Christmas. My grandfather gave me $1800 for Christmas and it was gone in 2 weeks! Jerry refused to buy anything for Christmas saying he couldn’t afford to and he was also behind on his car, phone and insurance. I took care of his stuff and bought Miya’s bigger carseat, jumper, high chair, and next size up on clothes. As you can see Jerry’s only really provided us with a roof over our head and food, otherwise he doesn’t give me any cash to spend or do
holidays or birthdays, he never has extra left in the bank to do so. He says he wants to marry me but his family thinks he’s not serious because there’s no ring. He wants me to buy his excuse that I shouldn’t obsess over material objects…something that contradicts his entire modis operandi when it comes to business. He wants me to not obsess over money or gifts but he’s allowed to obsess over the dream his business gave him? Is it wrong of me to think that the engagement ring is a very important part of tradition that must be upheld? Would you try to ask a girl to marry you without a ring? How would she be able to believe that you can afford a wedding if you can’t afford a ring? I feel like Jerry’s never gonna be able to afford marrying me until he drops the business…but he made it clear last night that if I made an ultimatum that he’d choose the business and that he only wants to marry me if I support what he wants to do.What are your
thoughts?Sincerely Melanie

I was getting pretty upset reading about the heartache this young woman was facing

All I have to do is look at my own family to realize how important they are to me, as opposed to anything else – as long as I can provide for them, I would never ask them to go without just for some “business opportunity.”

All relationships need to be built on a foundation of trust. This guy has shown from the beginning that he can’t be trusted (lied about his success, etc). She, and her child, deserve so much better & if he doesn’t realize that – then she needs to strike out on her own. If she does have money coming, she needs to use it to support her & her child – and if her so-called fiance tries to convince her otherwise, he’s showing his true, true colors.

When I read a story like yours it breaks my heart as well as makes me quite angry

The problem is a lot of people, even the ones that know the truth (that the profit comes from the CDs, the conventions, and so on and NOT the product) are so steeped in denial and the lies that are repeated over and over that they believe what they’re saying. It’s an amazing case of double-think, where they can say A in one sentence, then B in the next and literally not understand that the two contradict each other. While it may seem like a strong word, brainwashing is appropriate and accurate in this case. They have been brainwashed to believe all this stuff.

Now the hard part, and what is important to accept, is that they really do believe all this and that you cannot tell them anything and expect them to believe it. They are brainwashed into believing that this is the only way they’ll ever reach the point of being wealthy and that the alternative is to have a miserable life working 40 hours a week for 40 years.
The blogs like this also target people in your age blog because many don’t have the experience to know what a load of crap the business is.

We know that you can’t tell these people (as in those brainwashed and, essentially drones who do whatever their upline tells them to do) anything about “the business.” The current thinking is that questions may work. We haven’t seen evidence it makes a difference, but the idea is to try to raise questions in their mind that may make them rethink some of the brainwashing. In this case, one thing that I’d bring up is that he told you he was a Platinum, but you know he wasn’t and he later said they teach to “speak it into being.” So how does he know what his upline are, in reality? It might go like this:

You: “I’m confused about something in your business.”
Him: “What?”
You: “You told me that you’re supposed to speak something into being, which is why you said you were Platinum when you weren’t yet and cash loans from fueloans.com (404 error now!) remember that?” (Of course he’ll remember :) )
You: “So what I don’t get is how do you know, when other people say where they are, that they’re not doing the same thing?” Let him stew on that and see where you can probe and what you can do to probe deeper. Then you might get to the point where you can say, “But if this is what THEY tell you to do, then how can you be sure they aren’t doing the same thing?

Do it GENTLY because any time anything like that comes up, part of the fear on their end is that you can later say, “I told you so!” They have to be clear that you’re NOT setting them up to see the business as bad, just that the focus is on this one small part.

Now on to the other parts of your story.

As for marrying him, I’m not big on some of the traditional models of marriage – the idea that the wife stays home and takes care of the kids while the man goes out and makes a living. However, I do think it’s important that both partners hold up their share of the relationship, emotionally, financially, and so on.

I don’t want to judge your relationship, but I can tell you that there are a few things you will be expected to do if things continue. You will be expected to play the part of the dutiful, adoring, supportive, and admiring wife. This means going with him when he shows “The Plan” and sitting quietly, looking up at him with admiration because you’re just so proud and tickled pink and how wonderful he is and how great his success is. The pressure will be on you, more and more, to become the kind of wife they want you to be.

This is not a blog that admires or respects, or even understands individuality. They fear it. They want all their IBOs to think the same way, to talk the same way, to follow the same rules, and so on.
This also applies to their families. They have this image of all their IBOs doing well and having a community where all the families are like those in “Leave it to Beaver,” except much more church oriented and all are super-wealthy. Look at how his upline and everyone involved is and look at how they have, already, started to put pressure on you to be the way they want the wives of the IBOs to be.

It’s important to consider this. Ask yourself if you see any reasonable chance that he will leave this on his own. Do you think it’s likely he’d leave the business without him reaching utter failure and being abandon by them if he can no longer spend the money on the tools that enrich his upline? Consider this. I’ll touch on this again, later.

Now here’s one of the most important points: money you inherit. I don’t know the laws in PA. I do know in VA that whatever I inherit, whether before or during a marriage, is MINE. I can’t lose it in a divorce. If I move out of VA, THEN get divorced, I could get taken for everything my Father has already left me (and I’m not married yet). Since that is tied in with my Mother and Sister (I won’t go into it here), I *have* to get a prenup if I ever get married again.

In your case, you MUST do everything you can to protect any inheritance. Remember that it’s quite possible that you can have it all in bank accounts and trust fund in your name, but that he might get your PIN or find other ways to access the account, but not strictly legally. He has been brainwashed to believe the end justifies the means and the end is him being so wealthy he can easily afford to take care of you and your daughter in style for the rest of your lives, so that would, in his eyes, make it acceptable for him to take $50, then $100, then a few thousand, and so on, from any of your accounts in the name of taking care of you and his “family.”

In other words, do NOT marry this man yet. He has not yet proven he can take care of his own needs by himself, much less contribute on a fair basis to a joint household that includes him contributing his fair share to your daughter’s needs — and that includes not just financial, but emotional as well. If you do marry him, you are in danger of losing all you could inherit to him. Another point is what’s happened with his bank account. You want to keep your finances separate from him because he is going to have to deal with the results of what he’s done for a long time.

The best chance of getting him out of the business is for him to be broke and to have no money to spend on the tools. When that happens, they all will drop him like a hot potato. Their sole purpose of keeping him in and befriend him is because all the money he spends on tools is making his upline wealthy. While they have different ways of putting it, they are trained to drop someone once they stop spending money on tools. They measure someone’s commitment to the business based on how much money they spend on the tools. Basically, their love is bought and the more one spends, the more they love him.

So now I’m going to ask you a number of questions about yourrelationship. These are to give you a few things to think about in terms of just what is going on and what kind of situation you are in.
What does he do to help with your child? Does he ever change diapers, feed her, or do anything else to take care of her? How about housework? In other words, how much of his life is going to his job, then doing “the business?” Is he so caught up in this that he’s not contributing to anything else?

What I’m asking or suggesting you evaluate is if he brings anything to your relationship or takes from it. Is he just another burden on you while you’re doing most of the work of raising a child on what amounts to your own, or is he giving to the relationship?

If he’s not contributing much, you may be better off moving out and living on your own. Then you don’t have to fight over finances, you can focus on your work and child, and he is left to his own devices. If he ends up not paying the rent and getting evicted, it’s not your problem at all. (You’ve already seen that he doesn’t care about these things because he knows you will take care of it when he won’t.)

The idea in doing this is it helps in 2 ways: 1) It keeps you from enabling him by letting him spend his money however he wants, then expecting you to fill in the gaps and pick up what he won’t take care of, and 2) If he is not contributing to the relationship and you’re essentially raising your daughter on your own, then it won’t make a difference whether you’re living with him or not and it’ll remove the distractions he’s causing. It lets you get some distance from “the business” and will let you see how eager he is to see you and make time
for you.

I know my reasoning sounds cold, but I’m quite concerned that he may be in so deep that it’ll take a serious crash for him to understand what is happening. If that’s the case, what I’m suggesting lets you back off and let him crash. It’s not easy, it certainly is tough love, but as long as you give him emotional and financial support (or even stay silent and let him continue), then he’ll keep going, living on thу dreams of what his upline has brainwashed him with. The idea is to isolate him from everything but the business and let him see what happens when it all falls apart — which, from what I hear about his financial situation, is already happening. And one other point: if you do move out and he gets evicted, do NOT let him move in with you until he’s seen what’s actually going on.

We are here to help and you’re going to get a lot of different viewpoints you’ll hear from us. I’ll admit some might say I’m a pessimist, but I think I’m being pragmatic. I’ve seen the brainwashing first and and even after having worked years in residential treatment, was not prepared for how deep this brainwashing and conditioning goes.

Please, understand we are here if you have questions, need to vent or just need to ask for emotional support.


Melanie – I grew up with Amway; and am the mother to 7 adults. My first advice is this:


He is an addict – a Motivational Junkie. He’s involved in something that will suck his wallet dry – do NOT let your finances get mingled with his. Sooner or later, he’ll hit rock bottom, and maybe listen to your common sense (sounds like you have an ample supply, Dear!) In the meantime, he will NOT listen to you and the people in his group will be encouraging him not to. You are “negative”. An “intervention” probably won’t work right now.

So spend this time shoring up YOUR credit. YOU will have to provide for your baby daughter. Don’t be an “enabler” by letting Jerry off the financial hook, either. The sooner he crashes-and-burns, the sooner he may listen to reason??

Other will offer great ideas; and the files section has past stories that may help.

I feel bad for you

I was associated with this same blog only I am out of MI. I know of the Jacobs and there son Colby. Unfortunately in your line of sponsorship every young couple should be like “Colby the wonder boy”. My wife and I have four kids and have been married 17 years and I was sick of being compared to all the young people that are “supposed successful”

I hate to tell you this but you have no friends in that BZ. If they find out you want to quit Jerrys “Mentors” will do everything they can to destroy your relationship with him. They “tried” to divide my wife and I when she turned negative in their eyes. Unfortunately the Dussaults have twisted the BZ into something John Crowe never imagined.

Maybe with the help of Jerry’s parents you can talk some sense into him. Let him know that the only reason those people are his friends its because they are making money from him. My sponsor has not said a word to me since we quit last spring. I didn’t read but are you guys married? if not MOVE out and make some ultimatums. He needs to man up and support his family. If he can do it like a bunny with you he can start supporting you also.

My wife and I will be praying for you.

Posted in biz

I have nowhere else to go but to you, help me save my family

My name is Melanie, I am almost 21. I live in southeastern PA. I met Jerry 1 1/2 yrs ago on myspace, we were both single and looking, we met and he made me feel like a queen. He told me in passing that he was an IBO for Quixtar, I had already heard of it from a best friend and heard good things about it’s so-called 3-5 year retirement plan. Jerry said he was about to reach Platinum status in September. I didn’t mind Jerry doing this as a hobby, I didn’t hear about it much and we were falling in love.

One month after we met we became official as a couple. He asked me to go to a meeting with him bc his mentors were excited to know that he wasn’t single anymore. I suited up in a blazer and skirt with heels and walked into a Quixtar meeting held by team DC International in York, PA. He got up for the microphone and told his personal success story and that the guest he brought (me) was his girlfriend. All the hot guys in the room looked my way and cheered/clapped for Jerry. It was the most positive meeting I’d ever been to.

But I soon learned that if this was to be a winning business, there were high expectations of everyone, including Jerry. His mentors, Ed& Vicky Jacobs, were keen to talk with me with grins on their faces- saying how this business works best for couples who work together and that I should support Jerry in everything he does. They encouraged me to make myself a team with Jerry by listening to CDs and reading books, attend every meeting with him to come around the team more often.

I supported Jerry’s commitment to the business but I hadn’t been dating him that long at all, so I hardly came around the team the first few months. Our relationship was blossoming and after a couple months we were completely in love. He gave me a dozen roses one night and in bed finally said he loved me. He had practically moved into my apartment and we were making love like bunnies.

Then I found out I was pregnant, only 3 months after our dating began. It was a tough and scary decision, but we decided to keep the baby because we were sure we were in love and could do it together.

The first signs I got that not all was right with the business…was when Jerry wanted to hide the pregnancy from his mentors and anyone in the business, he didn’t want to tell until later. I started to see that Ed Jacobs had an unusual amount of influence on him and that perhaps Jerry was…ashamed? To tell his mentor about knocking up his girlfriend? Jerry told me that it was a Christian business and that those who attended the nondenominational church would frown at a child being born out of wedlock. And I had just learned that the business teaches members to stretch the truth or lie completely as a marketing/recruiting strategy. I found out Jerry was not even close to Platinum status- he had lied to me about how well he was really doing. He explained that he said he’d be Platinum only because it was the goal he set, and he was taught to “speak things into existence”.
I had to redefine the meaning of “lying” to him so he understood what wrong message he conveyed by what he said.

I had made one “friend” at the weekly meetings named Kelly, I really thought she liked me. I came to a meeting and talked in low volumes with her, told her I was pregnant. Apparently the news travelled…Jerry told me that Ed confronted him saying he’d heard and was upset that Jerry didn’t tell him first. That’s when I learned that Jerry made himself accountable to Ed for absolutely everything…every big decision he made he would run it by Ed first.

It seemed Ed & Vicky didn’t like me because they were disappointed that I wasn’t helping Jerry. I was starting to grow a belly and considering the importance of SAVING money for the baby rather than spending more on business volume. But Jerry’s mentors were teaching him that having a baby was a reason to invest MORE into Quixtar, a reason to get more done faster- supposedly to see more results.

I started to argue with Jerry about money…we didn’t have much, I wasn’t working, and with what extra he had he wanted to invest in the business DITTO volume. I fought him for every penny that I wanted to spend sooner to invest in the baby’s crib, diapers, clothing etc.. I wanted to be prepared ahead of time for our arrival. Jerry didn’t help me at all with the baby shopping. Around this time we moved in together in a 1-bdrm apt to supposedly save money, but Jerry started spending every extra he had on business. The more I learned about his finances, the more I learned that he also lied to me about how much Quixtar REALLY cost him. $300/month for volume, $8 a week for meetings, $60/month CD/CommuniKATE membership, and a few hundred every 3 months for the holy grail of all meetings- Conference weekend.

With our arguing revolved around the business, it became worse when Ed & Vicky got involved…as though I was supposed to be made accountable to them?! They sat down with us in Panera Bread and confronted me about the “negative” I was bringing into Jerry’s life, implying that his failures were my fault and that his business could only work if I was 100% supportive- their definition of supportive being…to keep my mouth shut rather than spout negative, read books and CDs, share his business duties and help give him contacts.

I was pissed with Jerry when the “intervention” was over…soon we came to an agreement that I’ll be supportive from a distance, sticking up for his business but not kissing its ass- and I told him that my job was to get everything ready for the baby. If I didn’t, it’s not like he would, right?

It should be noted that for the first year I was with Jerry his Quixtar profit ranged from $50-$300 per month, with one month of $400 but not consistently more than $250. But when he invested $300/month in product, $8/week meetings and $60/month membership…he lost more than he gained. Figure that for 3 months, the total expenses were $1200-$1500 (for meetings, membership, product and conference expenses) And the total profit could not be more than $800-$1000 for every 3 months. So every 3 months he’s wasted $200-$700 to the Quixtar business, not to mention all the time he’s had away from his pregnant fiance to go off for meetings with contacts to show the plan. He made over $2000/month net income from his fulltime job, so there’s no way he couldn’t afford our $515/month apartment, right?

Wrong. Before the baby came we were having financial problems every once-in-a-while because if there wasn’t enough money to go around, Jerry paid for his DITTO first even if that meant making his car payment or the phone bill late. DITTO always came out on the 1st of the month, no exceptions- that’s what he was taught. Apparently his mentors didn’t teach him to save a penny in the bank. We lived paycheck to paycheck. And when the baby came (a girl!) we required help from his family a lot and became financially destitute. To the point where Jerry accumulated so much credit card debt and so many bank fees for overdrawing the account- that Wells Fargo took his car payment out of his bank automatically before Jerry could stop them, and the bank stopped his use of the debit card to prevent him overdrawing the account on purpose (to borrow bank’s money he didn’t have) so he was left with no expendable income for the week- finally none to invest in the business DITTO.

By now this is the current situation, 1 1/2 years after meeting Jerry. His business has stolen his time and money, time he could have had with his infant daughter and money he could have used to buy an engagement ring. He actually proposed without a ring. Did I mention he didn’t take any photos of me while pregnant? He didn’t have enough time to make memories with me, and someone who is so religious about spending on DITTO every month, can’t find a way to afford the most important gift a guy can give to the woman they want to marry- the engagement ring? All a result of him not saving a penny to his name, hundreds accumulated to some thousands he’s wasted over 3 years of his life to Quixtar/Amway Global.

I tried confronting him about the Dateline report recently and others which have convinced me of my fears…that there is really no money- making potential for 99.9% of the IBOs. Jerry ignored me and rose to Amway’s defense, and he seriously believes he is the 1 in the thousand that will make it big regardless of what I say.

Outside of the business, and outside of arguing over the business- Jerry and I are supposedly happily engaged. But I am afraid that if I ever made an ultimatum- me or the business….that Jerry could leave me, that this is too deeply ingrained into his head to come out.

I need help to save my future life with this man I love. We have a daughter and are engaged but I don’t see him ever having the money to afford my ring or our wedding. I let slip recently to him that my family consists of a couple millionaires, and I will also be coming into some money shortly. I am afraid that as his partner I’ll also be losing to Quixtar if I allow him to get his hands on any of my money.

You’ve read my story to see how you could help me, you may be a Quixtar survivor. Rather than simply badmouthing Amway over the Internet…do you truly want to make a difference in stopping Amway’s influence, help prevent another family from getting hurt in the end? Please help my family…help find a couple other survivors and make plans with me to hold an intervention (phone or meeting) for Jerry.
He needs to hear your story and other stories…men getting left by their wives, getting into thousands of debt, men who resemble what Jerry may become if he doesn’t stop. Please, your story is important to me.


I just read an interesting blog (pro-mlm) that blatantly states that to be successful, people need to build a huge downline – but only sell product to avoid being labelled a “ponzi scheme.”

The focus is completely on recruiting – which is a lose-lose proposition, since it admits that the product is crap & not the reason for the organization to exist.

Posted in ACN

I was curious if anyone is doing mlm and if so have they heard of ACN

Yes, I did ACN several years ago. Like most MLM’s, unless you are extremely gifted in recruiting lots of people you will not make much money at it. The commissions on personal customers are so small you have to recruit a huge downline to make anywhere near what they claim you can. The attrition rate is so high that it’s almost always a struggle to keep your business growing.
There was also a subtle push to attend every local/regional and national events. At these events they always rolled out some new marketing tool that would make your business soar. There was a disclaimer that it wasn’t required but the message was that if you were really serious about the business you’d use all the tools and attend all events.
My monthly residual commission checks never broke the $100 barrier and that was after building down several levels. I did make some bonuses but I spent far more than I earned in the 3 years I was doing this.
I would only recommend this to someone who has killer slaes instincts and talents and no moral concerns when people you sell this opportunity to fail.

Posted in ACN